Winner Loser script - RAW

[Isis]

1. The biosurvival

Winner: "I will live forever or die trying."
Loser: "I don't know how to defend myself."

2. The emotional-territorial

Winner: "I am free; you are free; we can have our separate trips or we can have the same trip."
Loser: "They all intimidate me."

3. The semantic

Winner: "I am learning more about everything, including how to learn more."
Loser: "I can't solve my problems."

4. The sociosexual

Winner: "Love, and do what thou wilt." (Anon. of Ibid)
Loser: "Everything I like is illegal, immoral, or fattening."

5. The neurosomatic

Winner: "How I feel depends on my neurological knowhow."
Loser: "I can't help the way I feel."

6. The metaprogramming

Winner: "I make my own coincidences, synchronicities, luck, and Destiny."
Loser: "Why do I have such lousy luck?"

7. The neurogenetic

Winner: "Future evolution depends on my decisions now."
Loser: "Evolution is blind and impersonal."

8. The neuroatomic

Winner: "In the province of the mind, what is believed to be true is true, or becomes true within certain limits to be learned by experience and experiment." (Dr.John Lilly)
Loser: "I am not psychic, and I doubt anyone is."

winner|||loser

 

[Isis]

From the paradigma world  I come from I would  like to add that scripts cannot been seen
as singularity. Most of the time several scripts will come as sequence .
Since you have to start somewere in changing a script , you don't only look for that which seems most prominent
but also for the one that appears as most absent. 

[Isis]

According to Eric Berne (1973), there are three kinds of scripts: losers, non-winners, and winners. A "loser" script has an unhappy ending; it may have been started by parental injunctions, such as "Don't be too cute and take attention away from me," "Don't stay around me, you irritate me," or "Don't be smarter than I am." This is your parents' Child ego state talking, not their conscious Adult ego state. The person with a loser script may rationalize the failures in his/her life by frequently saying, "If only such and such hadn't happened," "Someday it will be better" (but someday never comes), "I can't do that," and so on. To turn ourselves from "frogs" into "princes/princesses," we have to recognize the injunctions, ego states, life position, games, and scripts. Your Adult has to be in control and develop your best selves. You have to kiss all your warts and frogs yourself.

A non-winner was referred to as a "happy frog" who never quite becomes a prince or princess. Berne said the toughest part of his job as a therapist was telling people there is no Santa Claus, no magical solutions, no free lunch. Non-winners are also rationalizers and deniers, saying, "things will be better after...," "things aren't as bad as they could be," "things didn't turn out well, but at least I tried," etc. Some people have to become more unhappy and do more self-helping before they become a prince/princess.

Winners learn to reject the destructive "witch messages" from his/her parents' Child ego state. They use their Adult ego state to re-write their life script, if needed, making wise decisions about life goals, relationships, time management, values, tolerance of others, self-acceptance and so on.

[stokastikos]

All attempts to compartmentalise and classify the functions of the mind/brain seem rather arbitary and simplistic to me, including the attempts I have made myself!

Many of these schemes look superficially convincing because we can readily identify with or imagine the compartmentalised functions described in them, but that only proves that we actually have far greater complexity and sophistication than the system proposed.

Freud's Id, Ego, and Superego scheme provided a superficially very convincing model, anyone could see their own sexuality, reasoning abilities and morality in there somewhere and the inevitable conflicts between such capacities. However the scheme itself acts more like a belief system than a reliable map because you can only really keep faith with it by a considerable effort of selective attention, too many things simply do not fit into it, and the lines drawn round the compartments remain pretty elastic.

Interesting as the 8 circuit model seems I doubt whether it will ever dovetail with anything we discover in neurophysiology. The words phrenology, kabbala, and hippy morality seem to come to mind, a heady mix, man, but does the model have any predictive value?

Stokastikos. 

[zach]

AS BELOW SO ABOVE
I THINK ANY ATTEMPT BY A COMPLEX SYSTEM TO MAP A COMPLEX SYSTEM WILL SEEM ARBITRARY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME BE VERY USEFUL, AND MAYBE EVEN FUN. I FOUND, AFTER READING pROMETHEUS RISING AND qUANTUM pSYCHOLOGY THAT BOTH MODELS (MAPS, OR MUDDLES) HAVE A PREDICTIVE VALUE WHEN SEEN AT A CERTAIN ANGLE, AND WHEN THE BELIEFS ARE TEMPORARILY USED AS TOOLS. I ALSO FEEL THAT NEUROPHYSIOLOGY MIGHT DOVETAIL WITH THE 8 CIRCUITS AND VISE VERSA, BUT ONLY WHEN THE RIGHT MINDS ARE ON THE JOB. AND IF NOT, BOB MADE SOME BIOSURVIVAL TICKETS AND ME AND SOME LIKEMINDED HUMANS HAD A GOOD TIME.

[Isis]

Neurophysiology  might come up with a map of the territory.

If we go into neurophysiology what belief of the brain do we choose:

The brain as the originator of thoughts.
The brain as the receiver of thoughts.
The brain as the originator receiver and sender of thoughts.

I like to see  all brains connected like computers on the internet.

So  I go for the last, but what if we have more then one brain?
Some talk about 3 already.

Regarding scripts :
So far I could apply any script on me. 
 In that way one can question scripts. 
I found them great lenses for my selfreflection ( one has to start somewhere)  as well as tools for changing some behaviors and mindloops.
Next step was observing others in the frame of maps . looking how far one gets in a certain frame.
But just trying one map with scripts  seems limiting to me.

In the end I think that applying scripts kind of trains the intuition to a more aware level.
One hears many voices instead of one and even sees shifting of the gestalt with the different voices on the spot.
By that time scripts got forgotten.
I have my personal gestalt labels , but how many appear in a person I really couldn't say.
Persons differ in that a lot and most probably also the situation plays a role , if one has a connection or not too.
Besides if one doesn't shift oneself in gestalt during a conversation one will not get
many shifts of a person during a conversation in return.
And how about those occasion that gestalts appear that one hardy could map into a personal levell, but come across as transpersonal?
What are those and where do they come from?  The person in question didn't do an invocation.

Does this  peculiar script have predictive value?
I would say no, but I feel  not so sure about predictive value and it's meaning in this context.

To me it provides just a list  of  core affirmations/beliefs of Raw himself that got arranged around the 8-circuit model.
But then I haven't read RAW's books. I read only Antero Alli .
I can't say that I can agree with all of them. Specially the  winnerscript in biosurvival seems a bit over the top to me.
Basically I just see this script as examples in which way one could map ones own beliefs or ideas around this model.


 

[monkey]

     As far as scripts go, those based on "winning" or "losing" are I think the least interesting.

[Vampigato]

     As far as scripts go, those based on "winning" or "losing" are I think the least interesting.

Dude!!! that was great!!