Tantric Psychology

[henbane intl.]

"Every state of mind, however distressed or distressing, is linked dynamically to an aspect of the intrinsic freedom of the non-dual play of our free elements. The Tantric methods reveal that mind is intrinsically free (unconstrained by symbols), and that this complete openness of mind needs to be personally disclosed rather than created. There is no concept here in which one has to artificially re-structure oneself according to a spiritually healthy philosophical perspective - all positivist intellectual formulations, are based either on wishful thinking or naïve idealism rather than on direct experience. So, although the view of our distorted emotional patterning which we are now about to explore may be a positively creative perspective, if it remains in the realm of theory it won't actually be of any real use."

from http://aroter.org/teachings/emotions.htm

[henbane intl.]

An interesting note I have found about Tantra (vajrayana) is that "it" (the method of the path) realises it is a paradigm used to  achieve a specific result. When one has attained the result, non-duality, the paradigm is no longer necessary. Interestingly, this defies many Western chaos magicians 'assumptions' that all 'religion' is purely paradigmal.

Neat little observation. Fun too.

[Ziyad K]

Hi henbane intl.

Interesting point.
An Indian tantric path I know of seems to feel the same way regarding your first point.
Could you direct me to where you read that?
Cheers
Ziyad K

[henbane intl.]

I suggest Namkai Norbu Rinpoche's 'The Crystal and the Way of Light, Sutra, Tantra, & Dzogchen'. The name sounds kinda of new agey, but it is anything but. I can't stand new age, and I am sure many are in agreement with that - here.

Another great book is 'Spectrum of Ectacy' by Ngakpa Chogyam, which describes 'embracing emotions as the path' and the practice of 'trek'chod' - one translation of trek'chod - "exploding the confines of conventional reality". The path denies nothing and suggests no polarity between 'good and evil', only works with them inorder to self liberate the conceptual, dualistic frameworks we humans like to use. I consider chaos magick a tantra of sorts. I think the goal of tantra (vajrayana) is complete liberation from all paradigms. Thus implying an affinity for the choas magick 'path'.

[henbane intl.]

Is it possible, in chaos magick theory, to be free from paradigms all together? This interests me most of all.

[jamadara]

Not as far as I can tell, although one might deceive of it that way. In my experience, CM is at best a sort of metaparadigm, and at worst just another religious (self-)delusion.

In one of the Phil Hine interviews posted on this board, he responds to McKenna's claim that the latter has no beliefs at all.

You might give Zen a go if you're really looking for the hard way out.

[henbane intl.]

I guess I would have to go with Mckenna. There exists a state of no-paradigm,me thnks.

It sounds like what the experience of 'Kia' would bring a practioner to.

hen

[Arthur Emerson]

Henbane: You asked firstly whether or not there was a paradigm free state in choas magick. To me this would indubitably be a 'no', at least practially. One of the "tenets" of chaos magick is to recognize and exploit paradigms. In a state of 'kia' or gnosis one is said to be beyond considerations of anything- neither paradigms nor chaos magick, for our argument, in particular. It seems to me therefore to be a practically useless consideration- a state of non-paradigm. For in the multi-realm of non-kia no-pardigm=paradigm of no paradigm.

Mckenna seems to imply that he actually believed in nothing. Perhaps he only meant to say that he could suspend disbelief at will- probably the most useful of magickal powers for a Chaoist.

My $.20

-ae

[henbane intl.]

so it is really a matter of one's intention...to 'rest' in kia or to manipulate a seemingly 'external' reality for one's benefit or maybe a little of both. since there exists no goal, beyond what one desires at whatever moment, one can choose to manipulate ad infinitum, forever and ever, until the body runs out...

Hen

[Arthur Emerson]

I'm not sure I get what you mean, but would like to. Perhaps you could append something to your comment?

-ae

[henbane intl.]

There is no 'ultimate' goal in chaos magick. The goal is chosen based on the magicians, fascinations, obsessions and intentions. All of which could change with every 'mind moment'. I am suggesting that the more one wavers with their intentention the further off the goal of the magician in question will appear.

If one is completely dedicated to one goal, for instance, the attainment of the non-dual state or the state of Kia, one would set ones siights on that goal and continue to pursue it through the thick and thin, regardless of temporary changes in 'mind'.

Post modernism seems to suggest process over goal. And chaos magick seems post modern in that sense. On the other hand, discipline and follow through is required in chaos magick, if one wishes to truly become a sorcerer. It is a contradiction in terms.

So really like most things in life, result is a matter of dedication and intention. The goal (whatever that is)  will not be had without some effort.

[jamadara]

"If one is completely dedicated to one goal, for instance, the attainment of the non-dual state or the state of Kia, one would set ones siights on that goal and continue to pursue it through the thick and thin, regardless of temporary changes in 'mind'."

But in chaos magic, Kia is a means, not an end (w/ the possible exception/s of illumination and maybe devotion magic, which often happen to be my two favs :-).

"So really like most things in life, result is a matter of dedication and intention. The goal (whatever that is)  will not be had without some effort."

Indeed, but it may be worth noting that CM is itself a special kind of effort, some would say to be employed when all other possibilities have been exhausted: it is a means to make the impossible possible (or at least more probable). CM—both as paradigm and metaparadigm—is a results-oriented system of practical magic. The pursuit of Kia for its own sake may be a worthwhile cause(-and-effect), but I dunno that that is really chaos magic; at least, not in the usual, consensus-reality meaning of the term (term, like rule).

[Arthur Emerson]

I agree with you on all points Jamadara.

-ae

[henbane intl.]

Just an observation.

Thanks!

[PropAnon]

To bring it back to Tantric Practices, etc.
 Recently I have started reading a book by Julius Evola called, "Eros and the Mysteries of Love:the metaphysics of Sex"
 The little I've read of this tome I really like....
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