Applied Zeteticism

[Brendan]

Zeteticism,as opposed to cycnicism, entails the systematic doubting of all information.
Cynicism advocates doubt of all new information.
For years I suffered from the naivete which comes from an overly trusting approach to life.
This culminated a few years ago when a "friend" walked away with my brother's luggage, including his iPod, wallet and passport.
Presumably those items, and my brother's identity, went into the local criminal underground, never to return!
Although in many inner disciplines I hit a wall recently, for three years I practiced the systematic doubt of all information.
When an idea comes into my head, I recite the mantram, "Yeah, right, mm-hmm, sure. Whatever."
Aside from several disquieting epiphanies on the human condition, this approach has had the salutary effect of making me nobody's fool.
Not only does zeteticism encourage reflection and careful consideration before adopting new BS, but it also leads me away from more clever, manipulative hominids.
This, in turn, places me back off the beaten path, where I wanted to go anyway.
Also, I have indulged in some potentially destructive plundering of the supermarket of sensation without (to date) falling prey to the seductive BS that goes along with that.
I trust nobody, but I consider that a small price to pay for the realism.
Getting back on the ball with the active doubt sounds good to me now, especially seeing this in words. I should do that.

[jamadara]

How about the information conveyed in the words, "I love you"?

Sounds like a lonely philosophy, friend.

[Telarus, KSC]

http://naturyl.humanists.net/zetetic.html

A Quick Introduction to Zetetics and Zeteticism

The term 'Zetetic' is formally defined as "one who proceeds by inquiry; a seeker." In modern usage, the term 'inquiry' is understood as 'critical inquiry,' and the zetetic is therefore best considered a 'skeptical seeker.'

Zeteticism, then, is the principle and practice of being a zetetic, a skeptical seeker. In plainer terms, it is an open-minded yet realistic approach to matters of truth, philosophy, and religion. It is based in critical thinking.

In that Zeteticism is a skeptical worldview, it is generally humanistic in its approach. This is to say that since traditional mythologies and ideas are examined critically, the zetetic worldview tends toward secular humanism.

Zeteticism is not dogmatic, nor does it eschew concepts such as spirituality and numinous experience. It is generally open-minded toward most ideas, but it encourages discernment based on logic, reason, and critical thought.

Zetetica is an online discussion community featuring topics of interest to zetetics. For intelligent discussion with like-minded friends, visit us today.

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Beware of becoming dogmatic about your doubt.

I balance my Zeteticism (Podge) with Temporary Belief (Hodge)

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/27.php
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/51.php

** The LAW OF NEGATIVE REVERSAL states that if something does not happen then the exact opposite will happen, only in exactly the opposite manner from that in which it did not happen.

[jamadara]

"It is generally open-minded toward most ideas, but it encourages discernment based on logic, reason, and critical thought."

I'm hep to that.

[Telarus, KSC]

Totally,

I've explained it to my GF as:

  ? New Information

  ? ! Doubt New Information

  ? ! ? Doubt the Conclusion you come to by Doubting the New Information

  ? ! ? ! Search for Even More New Information!!!!!

  AFTERMATH (Re-Cycle)

(All hail the law of 5's)

[Brendan]

How about the information conveyed in the words, "I love you"?

Sounds like a lonely philosophy, friend.

What a nice sentiment.

"Love is the Law, Love under Will."
Under that instruction, I Doubt.
I Doubt All.
I Doubt even if I Doubt.
Because of this practice, I have come to higher ground.

And the path of the mystic, in the element of Earth, does the quality of Dryness.

What a small price to pay; the Goal amounts to the worth of whatever asceticism I must endure, but only if necessary to the Work.
In recent years, I went to dangerous neighborhoods and dealt with career criminals.
They robbed me twice and placed me in mortal danger.
They used me and lied to me.
That "friend" I mentioned might have made off with my life, had the conditions favored it.

[jamadara]

I didn't mean when Aleister said it;
I meant when someone who really does says it.

I'm not usually this blunt, but my hair's falling out and going gray and I'm leaning more toward outspoken, yet I don't feel like nicing things up so much, so here goes—please pardon any hyperbole I employ, or at least recognize it for what it is.

Everyone's been dumped by someone they loved. When our security is broken like that, we may naturally become defensive. Combined with intense emotions of betrayal, self-doubt, etc, our defensiveness may manifest in all kinds of fucked up and beautiful ways: we might sing the blues, we might drink more, we might sleep around, we might find or return to religion, and/or we might produce a music album called _Pretty Hate Machine_. One of those, which I know at least myself and Henry Rollins have gone down, goes like this: I become jaded, cold, and mechanical. I wear more black (which usually means going all the way, because I "normally" wear a lot of black). I go on a martial monk's diet. I meditate more and increase and improve my martial arts practice. I work out at the gym more often, and every time I see a lady who turns me on I start playing some Ronnie James Dio "Devil Woman Look Out Tonight" song in my head. Why do I do all this? Because no one is ever gonna hurt me like that again, goddammit! But it doesn't sound like that at the time; it sounds more like Truth-with-a-capital-T ("my eyes have seen the light and chosen darkness").

More bullshit.

I am no stranger to (even mystical) ascetics—to spare you more anecdotes, you'll have to take my word for that—but I sometimes recognize it for what it sometimes is: a simple (and often the easier) reaction to a negative stimulus. (Rhetorical) you keep poking the rat in that cage, it's either gonna run away and cower in the corner every time it sees you or it's gonna attack you and maybe it starts attacking other people. Humans have such amazing capacity to endure pain with smiles on our faces; we also have remarkable ability to get out of cages. You say your friend might have killed you, and that's a bad place to be in; certainly something to be learned from that. But unlike our circumstances, we have virtually total control over what we learn from them.

And, man, if you can't learn to trust again... ideas, sure, but people, more importantly... well, I reckon you'll figure that out for yourself.

Sincerely, my best wishes to you. Sorry if that all sounded personal; it's not (except this: I wouldn't bother if I didn't care)—I don't know you well enough to get personal, I'm just calling something as I see it, same as anyone else. And, like anyone else, you can do with it as you will.

One more thing, re...

"Aside from several disquieting epiphanies on the human condition, this approach has had the salutary effect of making me nobody's fool."

Ever study The Fool Tarot card? I am curious what you make of it. (As more aside, it just struck me as significant that in the game—not oracle—of Tarot, The Fool is known as the "excuse" card.)

Sláinte, Brendan.

[Brendan]

Love, as you just clarified, bears very little discussion.
I react to that as any other healthy, wholesome individual does.

Well, I don't take any of what you posted as an insult, or anything.
It sounded like a good guess as to why I posted what i did, but didn't hit me anyhwere that hurt.
But why did you offer a toast at the end?
Slainte means "Cheers" in Gaelge, right?

I wear black on work days because I work at a place where they require it.
On my days off, I wear colors and walk in the sun, smiling at the people i meet and treating people with kindness.
When attacked or denigrated, I respond as I train to respond.
I devote my time and attention to my girlfriend A, and when I see other women, I consider, "How might associating with this one affect my relationship with A? Could she tempt me, or lead me away?"
For the most part, I look for what I can offer to any given person or situation; although, due to local political and religious harshness, I find myself caught up in a struggle day-to-day.
I don't adorn myself, but my sacrifices consist of (among other things): a meat-free diet; eschewing technology and ostentation; foresaking a car for the carriage of my feet; and offering my love as a sacrament and service, instead of a means of self-gratification.
These sacrifices have stayed in place over a long period of time, and I do not suspend them depending on conditions.

I do, as the dictionary definition above detailled, investigate ideas and persons.
However, I doubt first rather than trust whole-heartedly and implicitly, right off the bat, the way i used to.
I test the limb for stability before putting my weight on it.
The mantram reminds me not to put my trust in anything or anyone too quickly, lest i get burned.

What do I make of the fool?
In the Rider-Waite, or Thoth deck?
The meaning changed between the one's publishing and the other's, I remember reading that in "Seventy-Eight Degrees of Wisdom."
The Fool of that early illustrated Tarot, that medieval deck, looked like a travelling rascal, perhaps getting what he deserved.
The Rider-Waite Fool: the student of magick blithely stumbling onto the tumultuous difficulties of the spiritual experience.
The Thoth Fool looks like the student caught up in that experience: bells, whistles, rave music, possibly-fallacious epiphanies, and Holy Moley.
But the Fool doesn't feel the tiger chewing on his leg; nor does he see the 'gator at his feet.
As I see it, this means that the aspirant experiences the initial euphoria of magickal wisdom; the animals indicate the travails ahead or the undetected challenges already extant.
As I get it, the Fool has little to do with the fool, except inasmuch as the second may, through steady progress, pass through the stage of the first as part of his progress toward the horizon.

Thank you for sharing so many details of your life.
I observe that it has highlighted some areas where I can improve.

[jamadara]

"But why did you offer a toast at the end?
Slainte means 'Cheers' in Gaelge, right?"

Yep. Literally, like "to your health". I sometimes use it the way Brits use "cheers" to close a message.

"In the Rider-Waite, or Thoth deck?"

In your deck. :-)  (I studied w/ the Parke-Case and Knapp-Hall decks—which have several connections w/ the two more popular that you mentioned—but I favor an American playing-card deck for divination.)

Thank you for sharing as well. I enjoy getting to know people, even in this medium. That's all I have for now; no grand insights or clever retorts. I appreciate what you said, and thank you again for saying it.

[Isis]

 
Telarus.... hilarious....
You killed my Zeteticist on the spot.
I didn't even know I had one.
Turns out he still has the haunting idea that one can know the truth, instead of probability.
I am afraid he will raise again.
 

From what Brendan presents he describes encountering Demons in others in my view.
Nothing to do with selves in people that frustrates our desire by following theirs,
mainly what Jamadara describes. If we can't handle that, I agree we get into the poor-me, victim role.
If we meet a bigger devil we mostly are his victim for real.
I find that a difference. 

I don't know what good Zeteticismn will do in Demonolog.
Either you recognize one or you don't. At times seconds matter. 

So I looked the bits up again in Liber Kaos today: Sleight of Mind in Demonology. ( p. 100)
The liber bumerang.
A God ignored is a Demon born.
Ergo a God born is a Demon ignored.

[D.G.]

and

A Demon dying is a God acknowledged

[Brendan]

And the offspring of this thread dying (I wish it could)?

Well, in no seriousness at all, hey jamadara!
Initial offering reexamined:
As I see it...
Beginning.
Exhibit: inhibit (quodlibet).
Query: Why swiveteth the exhibited proclivity?
But I digress.
"Zetetic": semi-Thelemic ascetic attempted definitive ibid., spit it approximate.
Made sense; cribbed it.
Next inning.
Patronizing comment: condescended.
How nice!
Opinion discredited as bit-piece, in need of advice.
Thou quibbled as if Twelve-stepped infinitely, back-handed privacy vomit.
Insinuated: imagined it?
The point: you pressed it.
Parting gift: flip.
Resent it? A bit.
A picante post, wished the quibbler redressed it cotemporously.
Admittedly, he who quibbled befriended semi-non-aggressively.
Possible unintended.
Thread resurrected the previously presented.
Examined: obligatory retort neglected.
Comment thus added postoperatively, sent ending intended humorously.
For exhibit swivet, exhibitor thusly recommendeth semi-permanently, on waking,
making
thy regular, repetitive utterance thusly:
"Ribbit."

Just kidding, buddy.
You know I loves ya.

In nomine patrie, et fili, et spiritu sancti, requiescat in pace +
Thread, we hardly knew ye.