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Author Topic: sufism  (Read 4679 times)
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alk mem
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« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2005, 10:56:39 AM »

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The analogy is so well executed that even the reader who is acquainted with Marco Polo's narrative is unaware that he is encountering the very same legend in the story of Monte Cristo.

Which was exactly my experience with "Batman Begins" tonight. See it. This is the myth Star Wars wants to be when it grows up. I should cross-post this to the "frigging comics" thread.

yes, open up a thread there...planning to see it tonight actually...and may want to blab on about it...that star wars mention makes me doubly anticipatory... Smiley
thanks
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 08:35:38 AM by alk mem » Logged

we can't see clear
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sonic youth, 1988
henbane intl.
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2006, 11:12:20 PM »

The sufis like to spin, i heard it once said.
i feel that they secretly think dizziness is equivicol to some sort of gnosis.

then again, i heard catholic priests like pedophilia, justified as some sort of pathological gnosis.

graciously,
henbane
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jamadara
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2006, 11:30:25 PM »

"i feel that they secretly think dizziness is equivicol to some sort of gnosis."

Where's the secret?
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henbane intl.
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2006, 10:38:43 PM »

Don't know - I usually puke before gnosis.

-Henbane
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Telarus, KSC
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« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2006, 02:26:50 PM »

Stokastikos (Pope Pete) threw out a hint in the first MLA CMT course that he had picked up on his travels, and I have used it successfully, and have integrated it with my martial arts (blending it with my study of Aikido, i.e. the Dynamic Sphere).

If you remember spinning as a child, or if you watch a child spin, you should notice that they tend to "center" the spin along their main central axis, i.e. the inertia tends to pull both sides of the body out with the same force and children have the tendancy to "pull" their arms in to increase the velocity of the spin, which they then usually loose control of, stumbling over dizzy, or as you have experienced, puking. We can most likey explain this by saying that the fluid in the inner ear rotates in different directions, as one ear rotates towards the back of your head, with the other roating towards the front, having the focal point between them.

The key seems (stressing seems) to lie in keeping the center axis of the spin away from your central axis.One can acheive this by focusing the spin on the left hand held near/ just below navel level (or Hara if you prefer the eastern term, btw I ran across a beautiful little Zen text explaining one of the esoteric reasons that eastern arts teach you to focus there just before, and all through Acting i.e kata and combat, I'll post it in this thread if anyone's interested). When focusing on the left hand held thus, one tends to want to spin in a widdershins (counterclockwise) rotation by stepping lightly, almost dancing, forward and leading with the right foot so that the body turns towards your left. If one uses the right hand, try to dance deosil (clockwise). One may also focus one's attention onto a sigil held or drawn on the hand, as Stokastikos sugested.

Thus, you have your Hara (center) whirling around an envisioned "center" at a distence a little longer than your forearm or bent arm.

I'll quote http://www.parashakti.org/training.htm for the "origin story" of the wirling technique, as this may make my explanation a bit clearer.
Quote
The Essential Rumi, translated by Coleman Barks, has become one of the best selling volumes of poetry in the English language today. Imagine that! By what extraordinary means does the poetry of an Islamic mystic, Jelaludin al Rumi, writing in 12th century Persia, come to speak to Americans so powerfully today?

Rumi is an ecstatic poet. His voice speaks unmistakably from his heart. He is a passionate celebrant of Creation, of the Creator, of life, food, love, alchemy, music, and dancing. He is a lover of paradox. Through paradox we can challenge what we assume to be true. We can turn away from our customary ways of being, and turn instead to a higher plane. Passion, creativity, dancing, paradox, turning - these constitute both the symbol and the substance of the tradition of the Whirling Dervish.

Rumi was the first Whirling Dervish. Several accounts of Rumi‚s first whirling experience have been reported. My favorite tells us that Rumi was standing in the courtyard outside his family home, early one morning. It had been two years since he had last spoken, having fallen into silence after the disappearance and presumed death of his beloved spiritual teacher and friend, Shams of Tabriz. His family and students thought that Rumi had "lost his mind." On this morning he is said to have been holding onto a post, when he heard the hammering of a goldsmith somewhere in the village. He began moving his feet to the cadence of the hammer. Since he was holding onto the post, he began going in circles, eventually letting go and spinning. He spun and spun, and soon started to speak. Those nearby began writing down what he said. The words he spoke early that morning in 123? - and most mornings afterward throughout the remainder of his life - comprise the volumes we now read. This was the inaugural spin, the birth of the Whirling Dervishes, the moving meditation practice of the Sufis,the mystical branch of Islam

I have noticed when trying this (and it's been a while since I practiced it) that setting up a spherical inertia around a focus point _outside_ the trunk of your body generated a feeling of my feet wanting to lift up into the air of their own accord. This _felt_ as if the force I was generating eroded or lessended the force of gravity. I beleive that what actually happened I could better describe this way; once my rate of spin approached closer to that of the roation of the earth, my vector of innertia (normally directly towards the center of the earth, with a slight pull towards the east as that's the "leading horizon") changed in a way that seems hard to describe(Yaaah! Esoteric Ineffability, or "I can't Eff'ing think of the Words"). Practice slowly so that you can control this feeling, allowing you to sustain the balance of forces without loosing control. Once you attain balance at a slow or medium spin you can try to increase the speed to see at which point you begin to loose control.

I think this subject has a lot to do with the techniques taught by Capoeira (Brazilian martial art) which combines short spins along the center "Hara" line to add torque to kicks strung together with wider spins along an axis just outside the body trunk to generate inertia. Here's a Google Video Link to some Capoeira clips:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=capoeira

I wasn't able to find a Google Video Link to "sufi spin", but here's a couple of html pages for the MerKaBa Meditation:
http://www.greatdreams.com/merkaba.htm

http://www.chapeltibet.cnchost.com/ct/MerKaBa_Meditation.html
(Note to self, read through these, looks interesting)
------------------------------------------------
p.s. -jamarda,
I wanted to become more active in this and the MRL Simpy exhange, but loss of internet suddenly changed points of contact.
haven't got internet at home worked out, but that should change this week or next. glad I could throw in my experinces. expect to hear more from me.

-everybody
I'd really like to hear from you if you try this or any variation on this technique that you find. I could be totally off in this info, so corrective feedback could seriously help develop this as a technique that we can perfect or teach to others.
Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia! Spin with the balanced Push-Pull of the Sacred Chao!

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jamadara
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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2006, 11:52:57 AM »

Good to hear from you again, Telarus! Re Simpy, I have not been doing much w/ it myself—quite busy, I often forget to add links there, or I put them off for later, but I have added a few and even better, I have gone to it a few times to find things.

Hope to hear more from you soon, as you are able.

Re spinning, I get motion sickness quite easily, but I recently did a lot of dervish/spinning gnosis during a qlipothic ritual, and it was fracking great. I recall at the end of the final session, I fell to the floor, and although my body was still, I felt like I kept turning and falling into the floor at strange angles. It was quite a neat experience. I will give Telarus' suggestions some consideration the next time I have to spin.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 12:01:17 PM by jamadara » Logged
alk mem
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« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2006, 06:40:58 PM »

Don't know - I usually puke before gnosis.

-Henbane

yeah, that's one of the side-effects of not spinning and staying-the-course with regards to neophytism... Wink

the relation of priests to pedophilia is certainly, tho, not the same as that of mevlevi dervishes and 'spinning'

(and not all sufis spin...and a few priests, i hear, don't you-know-what....) Evil
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henbane intl.
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« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2006, 11:11:26 AM »

good point.

i usually attempt to find gnosis in the dimension of puking -

as far as priests, i have heard that there are a few that are not into pedophilia. some are too busy worshipping a guy on a cross & filling their pockets with cold cash. as a non-jaded person, i have to admit at least this much!

the bane.
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alk mem
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« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2006, 02:58:11 PM »

good point.

i usually attempt to find gnosis in the dimension of puking -

as far as priests, i have heard that there are a few that are not into pedophilia. some are too busy worshipping a guy on a cross & filling their pockets with cold cash. as a non-jaded person, i have to admit at least this much!

the bane.

hey bane.....well, ya know, pedophilia, cosmic necrophilia....!
but you know as well, necrophilia is not the problem...its the quality, eh? i'd take aztec necro over the neo-xristos necro-stylings any day. or night!
ha....

seriously tho, the church, i mean the Church does make me sick. or actively apathetic to their cause, especially as dictated by the Vatican...
i do admire tho how the everyday, simple-hearted folks (whose cultures were bushwhacked by the Church's hunger for control and gold) were able to throw a syncretic curveball and incorporate that Religion's dead symbols into newly wired and mojo'd vortices of intent and will!

santeria, voodoo, hoodoo...and of course, the folks of central and south america who maintain their own primal "faiths" and yet recycle the new-fangled "catholic" saints and deities as representatives of their subterranean and galactic "goddesses/gods"....

i think even in guatemala, there is a holy day that coincides with the Church's...a parade ensues and it all looks "catholic"...but a kind of inverse  dark Jesus is paraded thru the town, carried into the church and "mates" with the white jesus....cosmic, homoerotic jesus clone sex. how wonderful how the wild flowers of pagan impulse re-order the earth's surface as they pop out of the autochtonic abyss.......
Grin Evil Shocked
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« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2006, 08:29:30 PM »

agreed.

i see many religions as a positive. and many as not.  those religions/methods that resist 'institutiionalization' i readily enjoy.

as on of the most famous sufi poets spoke, 'the ascetic drags from lifetime to lifetime, while the mystic flies from moment to moment.' the great rumi
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alk mem
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« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2006, 09:50:03 PM »

.... 'the ascetic drags from lifetime to lifetime, while the mystic flies from moment to moment.' the great rumi


ah yeah, i almost forgot, we're in the SUFI room...
yeah, rumi is always a breath of fresh aethyr...! cheers
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we can't see clear
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sonic youth, 1988
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