Chaos-Voodoo?

[Theodore Prince]

Yesterday I was walking past a flea market and was drawn to two African copper etchings which I purchased for less than two dollars.  I instantly identified one of the pieces as depicting Chango, the Orisha of Thunder (amongst other things) in the various African diaspora traditions.  Later that night I awoke to the most intense thunder storm I have ever witnessed! 

I do not believe that purchasing the object caused the storm but it was a rather enjoyable synchronicity.  This incident made me wonder if anyone here has any extensive experience with the Orisha/Loa? So far I find myself intrigued by the system but somewhat reluctant to really delve into it. From all the sources I've read, it seems that one should never "muck about" with these entities.  Which brings up another question:  why do chaotes generally treat most other deities/systems in such a cavalier manner and suffer little ill effect?  If all these entities "exist only in our minds," then why do the african deities seem to be treated as if they are somehow more "real" than the others? 

Peace...Theodore

[jamadara]

I do hoodoo, not Voodoo or Vodou, so I can't speak much about practice of the latter, but I have known several Chaos magicians to employ it. I have never observed the same magicians treating the subject with any more--or less--respect than other paradigms.[1] In my experience, "mucking about" is generally frowned upon.

[1: There may be exceptions of personal favoritism, which I suppose should be absent from the Work of a Chaos magician, but then again *everything* is permitted. Denying our tastes seems equally useful/less as indulging them.]

[Stellar69]

Which brings up another question:  why do chaotes generally treat most other deities/systems in such a cavalier manner and suffer little ill effect?  If all these entities "exist only in our minds," then why do the african deities seem to be treated as if they are somehow more "real" than the others?

Who said they existed only in our minds? That is just a belief.

This is how I see it: "Nothing is true..." applies only to methodology of working, not to the "state of reality" as it is. It also means that the fabric of timespace is flexible to do anything and everything, in this case anything and everything "instructed" by a will. It means that if the entity in question was "designed" to exist only in our minds, it will. If it was "designed" to exist as a real spiritual entity, then it will be an independent entity, especially if years and years of such belief by the shaman(s) and tribesmen were invested in the entity.

And that is not absolute, meaning that one can "override" another belief system. The "override" depends on the model used: in information model "override" could mean using enough (more than what was invested in the entity so far) information matrices to replace the initial programming of the entity. In energy model it could mean blocking it and binding it with enough energy fields. In spiritual model you'd have to negotiate. In psychological it is part of your psyche and you have to reprogram yourself. However, this model does not imply absolute state of the entity, relative to the observation of practitioner, it only implies relative observation of the entity's "real" state in the fabric of Chaos. And the keyword here is "enough belief to override".

[Theodore Prince]

A concise and precise explanation that.  Perhaps my reluctance to work with the Orisha in a chaotic and idiosynchratic way lies behind the notion that they have been "programmed" over time to respond to very specific ways of working with humans, i.e. animal sacrifice, rituals handed down through oral traditions, etc. and where I live there are no resources for direct participation with this system.

Still I feel quite drawn to the Orisha themselves and must go to the crossroads myself and find out if they will work with me. 

[Happy]

I practice the art of a Bo-Kor.  This is a similar view, and employs alot of daily ceremonial works.  The LOA are the biggest part of most voodoo, voudu, hoodoo, ie and other spellings and offshoots of the Haitian culture.  I use it is chaos because of its adaptability. 

The Art of a Bo-Kor is one where all is sacred, and profane symbollically, and if one can practice anything, the Art is its Bloodfire.

The Loa are very real, and work like most magians claim egregores do.  They are sentient, and leave trails for those who would benefit from an encounter. 

Looking into it would be a good option.  I'm sorry, was there a specific question I missed?

[Theodore Prince]

If I may ask, how did you begin your work as a bokor?  That practise has always facinated me 

peace...Theodore

[Thinair]

Hmmm.

Interesting stuff.

Which brings up another question:  why do chaotes generally treat most other deities/systems in such a cavalier manner and suffer little ill effect?

This made me smile  When you think you're cavalier, you're in danger of falling off your horse. When you think you're flirting, all the world is sex with the potential for one yummy orgasm lol The worst that can happen? You can fall in love.

Ahem, sorry - I've been on my own for a while 

I can't remember where I read it, it was someone like Eliade or Walsh or possibly Harner - that the shaman is flirting with the universe. I've been through a few systems and fair fell in love with Vodoun (Yorubaland especially - love this book) and now here I am chasing Umupfumus  but I think I've always felt everything I've done in that sense between my legs - in the sex of what I am. I think people of Chaos approach things with such an enthusiasm and a quirky way of walking it's impossible for systems not to fall in love with them. I like them [Chaotes?] anyway - everything's a great cosmic rattle to their child-like grasp. Pick it up, shake it about a bit and suck on it when you're done

Would anything hate such treatment?

*shrug*

But yes, vodoun scares people, because people want to be scared by it. It's deliciously spooky - would you want it any other way? Would you be as attracted to it?

I think the greatest shamans of their practices are the ones who go at it a little 'cavalier', otherwise we limit ourselves by fear. You can be scared of anything until you get up close and personal - if you'd never seen an egg and I said it'd poison you, the look and feel of it would sure put you off ever trying. Rarely do things attack without warning - it's not the animal way, and Chango of all the proud Africans was an animal once - many Orisha and Lwa are ancestral spirits. If you're a woman you're safer with him than a man (and boy has Rwandese mentality not progressed any in the past thousand years!)

Worst case scenario, go Buddhist on his arse - 'all is love - much metta to the masses'. What a mood breaker in the face of ager and indignation Call up the avatar of Ghandi!

Sorry, I'm waffling, I know it, I can see it coming out of my fingertips and onto the page, so I shall stop

It depends how seriously you take it. If you immerse yourself in the worldview and scrape together as much of the culture as you can given the circumstances, then yes, it's fire. If you languish on the edges and play it as a chaotic game then I suppose it's like watering down the homeopathic waters of belief into a refreshing tonic. Enjoy.

Be interested to hear how it goes

[Happy]

If I may ask, how did you begin your work as a bokor?  That practise has always facinated me 

peace...Theodore

Bo-Kor is a "dark art of voodoo".  Rather than being something researched, it is worked with in certain "spaces" created for such, with those with whom the practice has been life long.  At some point, access to creation of certain types of encounters takes life long dedication.

My experience began in traditional santeria, and grew outwards and I allowed for entrance into my life to the art itself.