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Author Topic: Time  (Read 2533 times)
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anosognosia
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« on: June 17, 2005, 10:57:33 PM »

An article on the BBC has me thinking about time again:

Quote
New model 'permits time travel'
If you went back in time and met your teenage parents, you could not split them up and prevent your birth - even if you wanted to, a new quantum model has stated.

Researchers speculate that time travel can occur within a kind of feedback loop where backwards movement is possible, but only in a way that is "complementary" to the present.

(The rest of the article)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4097258.stm

What if this model works? Definitive proof of time travel might change history. Would this model imply that witnesses of time travel would either forget or find themselves unable to convince others of what they saw? Could that explain the alien with the peanut butter sandwich? (in Cosmic Trigger)

On reading a bit more I see that this seems to only amount to Hawking's "Temporal Conservation Conjecture" given a bit more evidence.

But I found a great disappointing link on the Grandfather Paradox itself.
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-162_A_Solution_to_the_Grandfather_Paradox.html

According to the probability arguments in the original article, changing my personal future by going into the past should have no limitations because the future hasn't happened. In other words, if a great Star Goat were to threaten Earth, I could nip back in time and feed it tofu-spam until it fell asleep and missed Earth entirely. This would not violate the model because I have not yet observed the goat's behavior in my near future. I could not make the goat dissappear or change trajectory, because I would have already observed these thing in my present.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2005, 01:59:45 AM by anosognosia » Logged



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Isis
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2005, 11:30:45 PM »

Somehow this makes a lot of sense to me.

So now what? Are parallel existances eliminated too?
 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2005, 07:05:31 PM by Isis » Logged
anosognosia
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2005, 01:34:55 AM »

I don't think it would say anything in particular about parallel existences except that you probably couldn't use them to "cheat" this rule.
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kaosxmage
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 10:21:51 PM »

I've employed a meditation to come to grips with the concept of time, and all roads thus far lead to illusion. Allow me to illustrate ...

While in meditation I seek Gnosis - that bloody minded no-mind state and float free from physical trappings - I like to think anyway. Gradually, I bring my awareness to my surroundings, and expand that awareness to the Earth as a whole, than on to observing Earth from space, and further pulling my awareness deeper into the universe until shock literally brings me crashing down. This little journey has brought me to a conclusion that time does not exist - it's simply a measure we place on the universe to keep track of "things". I have also decided that time isn't so much a matter of when but of where. Work with me. Spaceship Earth goes on her merry little journey around the sun within the confines of our solar system (which in turn has movement through space) stuffed neatly inside our galaxy (also dancing through the void). With all of this motion it seems to me that if one would journey back in time to 1200 B.C., one might have a quick beautiful glimpse of the Earth from Sapce before your lungs scream, "I quit!" because Earth wouldn't very likely be in the same place as she is in 2005. Just a hunch.

Much love,
--Kaos
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Arthur Emerson
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 05:56:42 AM »

Interesting that no one has commented on Carroll's work in this feild. Has anyone read it? I haven't really cared to to be honest, as this subject doesn't interest me but casually. I would though, be interested in hearing some comments on Carroll's 6d model of time. Sad as it sounds, if I read a good review of it I might be compelled to actually read it.

-ae
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Vampigato
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2005, 01:14:48 PM »

In what book does that 6D time model appear?

Other than that, I have found time as a rather useful subjective experience to measure a part of our experience, much like space. I don't belive both of them have an objectve reality, and rather consider them a human construct.
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Arthur Emerson
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2005, 07:17:02 PM »

no book. specularium.org  3-dimensional time. sorry.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2005, 09:58:28 PM by Arthur Emerson » Logged
Thinair
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2008, 10:01:17 AM »

I don't actually know Caroll's work, though I know of him - I'd appreciate a summary regarding time, if you've got time Smiley

(Any free online book resources also hugely appreciated - not to do people out of an income but my connection rivals a snail on valium and posting out to here costs more than the book! - I found a personal view :p )

Anyhoo. I read something once in Australasian Psychiatry, that changed the way I thought of time for ever:

“The Aboriginal concept of time differs from the Judeo-Christian perception of time in that Aboriginal people do not perceive time as an exclusively 'linear' category (i.e. past−present−future) and often place events in a 'circular' pattern of time according to which an individual is in the centre of 'time-circles' and events are placed in time according to their relative importance for the individual and his or her respective community (i.e. the more important events are perceived as being 'closer in time').”

I thought about this for a long time and it lead onto other musings, but I've never been able to shake this short little passage lol

From experiences in both 'natural' (oooh, such a loaded word Wink ) dreamstate and entheogenic, I know time to be highly malleable and subjective. If it exists at all, it is not as the construct we often perceive it to be - but this, of course, will come as absolutely no great shock to any occultist Wink

Age certainly exists - but are age and time 100% intertwined? I used to think so, I don't think that I do anymore. I'm still thinking about it Wink  What if the entire birth, life and death of everything we conceive, perceive and believe is but a flashing moment of 'relative importance' in the mind of something much greater - but I'll blather on about memory at a separate point.

The point at which my belief in time travel breaks down is the point at which I stop believing in time.

The concept of time travel in days, months, years, generations - how terribly measured. Perhaps everything is happening now. Perhaps time is but a series of measurable events. I don’t know, quantum physics aside (and it ain't my forte), from perhaps a wishy-washy wobbly feet kind of stance (because I ain't well enough read), I think time travel happens all around us quite continuously in subtle shifts but I think the movie and science-fiction notion of it, much like the Hollywood depiction of Vodoun, is so dramatic and tantalising as to rob our own purses of something greater. Tree, barking, wrong perhaps?

But, I'm afraid, other than voicing my concerns about such things, I can't offer much constructive on the matter, it's still working its way through my brain. There is time and there is time, one is 'real' and one is dream, just like there is tree and there is 'tree', one is 'real' one is spirit. So perhaps we can travel through 'real time' dramatically, like we so often travel through dreamtime subtly. The eighty-year old with altzimers talking to her son like he were her long lost brother who died in the war - now that's an incredibly time machine.

Only the visible question of age bothers me, and that I'm still thinking on Wink

Marion.

REFERENCE:

Janca, A. and Bullen, C. (2003) ‘The Aboriginal concept of time and its mental health implications’, Australasian Psychiatry, Volume 11 (October 2003) p.S40 
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 06:55:55 PM »

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081120073130.htm
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